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Disrupting Bias: Equity in Hiring - Shared screen with speaker view
Christina Pfeiffer (she/her/hers)
24:27
Welcome! While you are settling in, please share your name, pronouns, and location in the chat.
Caitlin Boley
24:32
Caitlin Boley, they/them, New Orleans
Kelli Herrick
24:33
Kelli, she/her/hers, calling from Cleveland, OH!
Helen Oh
24:40
Helen Oh, she/her/hers, Denver, CO!
Vilma Schonwetter
24:46
Vilma - she series, NYC
Lian States
24:49
Lian, she/her/hers, Brooklyn NY!
Nicholas Pascale
24:49
Hey Everyone!
Jenet Manuel
24:51
Jenet Manuel, She/Her/Hers, San Jose, CA
Jenny Rodriguez
24:54
Jenny Rodriguez - She/her Mamaroneck NY
Adrian Yu
24:56
Hi everyone! Adrian Yu, He/Him, Los Angeles!
Sadie Mencia
24:58
She/her/hers NYC
Donna Moxham
25:01
Donna Moxham,she/her/hers, Newtown, CT
Joel Uyenco
25:04
Joel Uyenco, he/him/his, Richmond, CA
Yajaira Adorno
25:08
Yajaira (Ya-high-ra), Bronx, NY, she/her/ella
Matt Lyngarkos
25:11
Matt Lyngarkos He/Him/His Atlanta, GA
Emily Konig
25:13
Emily Konig, she/her/hers, Washington, DC
Joanna Norko
25:14
Joanna, She/Hers from CT
Jennifer Perkins
25:15
Jennifer Perkins, she/her from Concord, NH
Russell Langsam
25:16
Russell Langsam he/him, NY, NY
Ariel Test
25:27
Ariel Test, she/ her, New Orleans, LA
Christina Pfeiffer (she/her/hers)
25:30
Welcome! While you are settling in, please share your name, pronouns, and location in the chat.
Serena Moy
25:30
Serena Moy from Edgility, San Francisco Bay Area She/Her/Hers
Jonathon Brunson
25:32
Good morning from Milpitas Ca : )
Eric Mingo
25:32
Eric Mingo he/him, San Francisco
Mia Moore
25:32
👋🏼 all! This is Mia Moore, she/her, calling in from Montpelier, VT on unceded Abaneki land. Good to be here!
Jenna Ellis
25:36
Jenna Ellis, she/her, Charlotte, NC
Ashley Ogonowski
25:38
Ashley Ogonowski, she/her/hers, Michigan
Emma Chow
25:49
Emma, Seattle, WA, she/her/hers! <3
Sarah Carter
25:53
Sarah Carter - She/Her/Hers - Boston, MA
Nicholas Pascale
26:04
Nicholas Pascale He/him Dallas, Tx
Julie Wardlaw
26:09
Julie Wardlaw, she/her/hers - Little Rock, AR
Jane Wiley
26:17
Jane Wiley, she/her/hers, Washington DC
Ashleigh Hill
26:18
Ashleigh, Chicago, IL she/her
Heidi Romer
26:21
Heidi Romer, she/her/ella Buffalo, NY
Lily deSaussure
26:25
Lily, she/her/hers - Brooklyn NY
Ebony Callands
26:26
Ebony Callands she/her—VA Hey Edgility team!
Jonathon Brunson
26:28
Jonathon Brunson Assist. Sup of Human Relations Milpitas USD, He/Him
Teresa Waggoner
26:29
Teresa Waggoner, she/her, San Francisco, CA
Larry Varn
26:31
Larry Varn, He/Him/His, Chicago, IL
Madiha Qader
26:35
Madiha Qader She/Her Richmond, CA
Gary Davis
26:37
Gary L. Davis (he/him), Washington D.C.
Brian Hartle
26:38
Hey hey! Brian Hartle, he/him, NYC 🙂
Sarah Mueller
26:43
Hi there! Sarah, she/hers, Milwaukee, WI 🙂
Elise Wilson-Coles
26:47
Elise Wilson-Coles-she/her, Philadelphia, Pa
Julia Baran
26:49
Hello! Julia Baran (she/her/hers) Trenton, NJ
Hadley Kornacki
26:50
HI Brian!
Bethany Orozco
26:52
Hello! Bethany Orozco, she/her and calling in from Los Angeles
Jason Cisler
26:52
Jason Cisler (he/him) San Francisco, CA
Shalesa Bush
26:53
Shalesa (she/her) Nashville, TN
Maria Doucettperry
26:54
Aloha, I'm Maria Doucettperry (she/her/hers) joining from Reno, NV
Christina Pfeiffer (she/her/hers)
26:56
Welcome! While you are settling in, please share your name, pronouns, and location in the chat.
Mallary Haworth
26:57
Mallary, she/they, Ypsilanti, MI
Mary Snowden-Lorence
27:02
Whoops - one more time (for ALL)…Mary Snowden-Lorence (she/her/hers), Brooklyn, NY. Good afternoon, all!
Katherine Kilday
27:13
Hello! Katherine She/her/hers Boston, MA
Brett Kunsch
27:15
Brett Kunsch he/him, Durham/Chapel Hill
Alisha Gripp
27:27
Alisha Gripp she/her Kansas City
Zeina Peterson
27:34
Hey, All! Zeina Peterson (she/her/hers)/ Trenton, NJ!
Jennifer Peters
28:21
Jenni Peters (she/her), Madison, WI
Brandon White
28:25
Brandon White, he/him/his, Rochester, NY
Shannon Williams-Paden
28:29
Hi Everyone! Shannon Williams-Paden (she/her/hers), New York
Brandon White
28:39
Peace Ron! LOL
Alyssa Pizarro
28:46
Hello all! Alyssa Pizarro she/her, Seattle, WA
Kiesha Lamb
28:58
Kiesha Lamb she/her in Massachusetts
Reginald Davenport
30:16
Reginald Davenport he/him Plainfield, NJ
Sonia Park
34:05
Sonia Park (she/hers) Brooklyn, NY
Nicholas Pascale
49:47
Very powerful statement, Ron!
Yajaira Adorno
54:01
100%
Kelli Herrick
54:19
Completely agree - this has been one of the hardest mindsets for me to shift in my org currently
Cliff Chuang
54:34
What about googling a candidate?
Yajaira Adorno
54:42
Also the googling - knowing how much falsehood exist
Kadidiattou Ouedraogo
54:44
Totally agree!
Ebony Callands
55:02
It’s an incredibly difficult mindset to shift
Shannon Williams-Paden
55:37
Thanks Celena
Sonia Park
55:38
We've used Spark hire, it's good.
Cliff Chuang
56:00
So google = background check-ish after interviews, etc.?
Cliff Chuang
57:06
Seems like googling is different than asking through a network, since it is public, and I do think that you want a candidate to be able to respond to it.
Celena Jenkins (she/her), Recruitment Consultant, Edgility Consulting
57:26
Agreed, Cliff!
ALLISON OHLE
58:50
I want to be sure that I properly understood something that was previously said: Ron is discouraging the practice of asking around in your network about a candidate without their knowledge. Is that what I heard?
Nicholas Pascale
59:04
Creating spaces for Vulnerability makes this process so much more human! This is so critical!
Yajaira Adorno
59:49
Thank you all, hopping off but look forward to watching the rest!
Jonathon Brunson
01:01:45
We remind the panel that it is hard to interview, people can be nervous and shy, others over the top with enthusiasm. The interview is just one of the platforms we consider, that's why you do references. Some talk the talk while others walk the walk. We owe it to the candidate to consider all of their qualities.
Christina Pfeiffer (she/her/hers)
01:01:58
Respond in the chat! What other pitfalls do you feel are common in the selection process?
Kelli Herrick
01:02:00
I love hearing that example - I hear that often especially for female candidates "they need to be more confident" - and not pausing to unpack where that is coming from.
Mia Moore
01:02:09
I am 'guilty' of Halo Bias
Patricia Holliday
01:02:12
In answer to your question- that is correct Allison Ohle.
Bethany Orozco
01:02:42
I have also seen biases about candidate clothing. And we realized that we needed to prepare candidates by letting them know the expectation for dress in their interviews.
Lian States
01:02:57
Do you have tips around handling external candidates vs. internal candidates, where we just by nature have more background knowledge?
Joel Brown
01:02:58
I think a common bias is basing your view of a candidate on their personality instead of their skillset, especially when working to analyze the future relationship between the candidate and their manager
Joel Uyenco
01:03:08
We often hire internal candidates and I feel like that can get complicated with biases because of who knows/has worked with the candidates
Cliff Chuang
01:03:09
We really try to emphasize performance tasks--any tips on what's reasonable to expect in terms of new production of content to be assessed (vs. past work)? Interviews are over-centered in hiring process for most jobs that don't require good intnerviewing skills.
Lavon N Fairclough
01:03:18
Where someone goes to college. There is an affinity for certain institutions over others.
Shannon Williams-Paden
01:03:18
Having the same hiring managers speak and mention the lack of equity in the organization (historically) and that allows for more bias during debriefs, etc.
Jennifer Peters
01:03:19
Extroversion bias (similar to friendliness) plays out in all day interviews with groups of people. My introverted self is exhausted and low energy by the end.
Kelli Herrick
01:03:29
^^
Lavon N Fairclough
01:04:04
Constantly speaking about we need more candidates of color and not putting in the structures to support that.
Jonathon Brunson
01:04:10
How we set a positive and consistent tone with each candidate, they all need to feel as they were the first one to walk into the room or zoom. Keep the same energy for each of them, our body language matters to them too.
Kelli Herrick
01:04:53
mmm, that's interesting Jonathon
Eric Mingo
01:05:06
How to balance trajectory pathways without appearing to lean into nepotism?
Cliff Chuang
01:05:53
Celena/Ron, that's helpful on the performance task issue. Agree on the balance.
Ebony Callands
01:06:36
I am now on the fence on performance tasks. I believe in compensation for performance tasks, especially if the ask is big on time and product.
Kelli Herrick
01:06:59
I love asking for work samples from prior experience rather than new work
Alicia Stokes
01:07:58
When we do performance tasks we have our candidates send them in anonymously most often especially when we are considering internal candidates.
Bethany Orozco
01:08:29
Curious to hear thoughts on cover letters
Kelli Herrick
01:08:36
@alicia so interesting!
Bethany Orozco
01:08:36
As I see a lot less use of them recentlty
Shalesa Bush
01:08:42
Who else wants to work for Ron lol?
Ron Rapatalo (he/siya)
01:09:02
@Shalesa - you are too kind!
Madiha Qader
01:11:09
what are your thoughts on not asking follow up questions in an effort to give everyone same interview experience?
Ron Rapatalo (he/siya)
01:11:57
@Madiha - not asking follow-up questions leaves doubt on the table. I personally recommend asking follow-up questions, esp when something is unclear in the response!
Madiha Qader
01:12:26
thank you
Bethany Orozco
01:15:10
I hear your concerns, thanks for raising those. Do you have any concerns with her ability to meet the competencies that we are looking for?
Maria Doucettperry
01:15:33
Would reference the total pool and the predefined rubric and considerations designed to identify the best candidate.
Joel Brown
01:15:52
This concern should have been raised much earlier in the process, if hiring a Black staff member was truly a priority. If the candidate is strong and the decision has been made I wouldn't change the selection at this point
Teresa Waggoner
01:16:49
Maybe redirecting the question back to them: "what would your recommendation be?”
Mia Moore
01:17:00
I would be interested to know the Why behind this person raising this concern -- what's the value ad of someone who is Black, and was that something we considered when determining competencies and qualities at the beginning of the process?
Juniper Rogneby
01:17:26
id love your input on future recruiting cycles on how we could have had a pool of candidates with more Black candidates.
Kelli Herrick
01:17:34
Such a good scenario to think through. I'd probably say something like "I appreciate you raising the concern. Do you feel that this candidate meets what we are looking for? If so, it feels as though we should move forward. And then more broadly, I'd love to spend time talking about how we can increase the representation of Black staff members on our team."
Jonathon Brunson
01:19:01
I assume ref checks were made and we should value the committee's work. She should be offered the position, we have probationary periods for a reason based on their work. You should know going into the process what your goals are for your organization. We want diversity and we want the skills sets that were presented.
ALLISON OHLE
01:21:09
I think optics is a dangerous excuse. Diversity on your team is valuable because different life experiences are critical to perspective. Optics" devalues the real value that candidates from historically underrepresented communities may bring. When someone mentions the optics problem, I always dig in on what's behind that. Hiring for optics is performative. --my two cents
Shalesa Bush
01:21:39
This has been great. Thank you Ron and Celena.
Kelli Herrick
01:22:01
I want to commit to bringing even more training to my team of hiring managers on how to reduce bias in hiring process so they understand where and why many of our policies come from
Cliff Chuang
01:22:07
Double down on the development of our Equitable Hiring Playbook and training.
Vilma Schonwetter
01:22:08
Great presentation, thank you both for these key points!
Jason Cisler
01:22:12
keeping an open mind on all applicants
Mia Moore
01:22:14
I'm going to push for more concrete competency rubrics.
Joel Uyenco
01:22:16
I want to make sure that we have clear rubrics for all stages of our hiring process that are aligned to the competencies we look for.
Shalesa Bush
01:22:18
No problem!
Sadie Mencia
01:22:29
outlining objective competencies(rubric) in the beginning of the process to ground feedback & expectations
Jennifer Perkins
01:22:29
Ensuring that we don't engage in discussion about a candidate before everyone has completed their rubric.
Maria Doucettperry
01:22:34
Clear processes outlined before we start the search
Bethany Orozco
01:22:37
I think I'd like to do a refresher on exactly what you talked about with our whole team. And consider adding a shortened version to hiring manager and client training
Alyssa Pizarro
01:22:37
Continue to share bias awareness tactics
Alicia Stokes
01:22:38
Checking myself about my own biases. Also calling out in a respectful manner of course things that are unfair in processes and systems and then coming together to brainstorm the solutions
Teresa Waggoner
01:22:40
Develop a "communication skills" rubric as that's where I see a LOT of bias creep in.
ALLISON OHLE
01:22:47
This has been great. Big shift for me has been the issue with back-door references. And rubrics--super basic, and very important. (but also not so basic! pushes the committee to be really clear about what they are looking for.)
Sonia Park
01:22:49
Plugging Edgility! They lead an awesome CoP for Diverse Charter Schools Coalition https://diversecharters.org/disrupt-bias-talent-outreach-strategy/
Sarah Mueller
01:23:10
I'm thinking a lot about trainings and conversations to have as a hiring team before launching a search, and how it might be helpful to do some language norming about the types of common biases, look fors, etc so we all have shared, normed language and group comfortability to speak about it when it comes up!
Vilma Schonwetter
01:23:11
I want to push for maybe adding performance based tasks as part of the interview process
Joel Brown
01:23:35
Record thoughts in a rubric before discussing candidates with the rest of the panel
Nicholas Pascale
01:23:38
I want to push our search committee members to more deeply own their own bias as set a forum where we can explecity share that as a group. My hope is that by being vulnerable and transparent about our bias we can have folks that call us out on them, thus creating more equity for our candidates.
Heidi Romer
01:24:07
Great presentation, thank you
Christina Pfeiffer (she/her/hers)
01:24:10
Larger survey here: https://edgilityconsulting.research.net/r/FNQF5YL
Alicia Stokes
01:24:18
Great presentation thank you
Chase Lurgio
01:24:24
Thanks all!
Nicholas Pascale
01:24:28
Thanks Ron and Celena!
Samantha Snyder-Hawke
01:24:28
Thank you!
Lavon N Fairclough
01:24:31
This was great! Thank you both Ron and Celena….I appreciate the folks in the chat….I learned quite a bit today!
Bethany Orozco
01:24:31
Thank you!
Lavon N Fairclough
01:24:34
Thank you!
Mia Moore
01:24:36
Thank you!
Eric Mingo
01:24:36
Thank you both for this. Very informative!
Shannon Williams-Paden
01:24:36
Thanks you both this was great!
Alyssa Pizarro
01:24:41
Thank you!
Lian States
01:24:41
Thank you!
Mary Snowden-Lorence
01:24:41
Thank you!
Jason Cisler
01:24:46
thank you!
Russell Langsam
01:24:48
Thanks, all. Relevant and helpful info.
Zeina Peterson
01:24:55
Thanks so much for this! Appreciate the insight.
Sarah Mueller
01:24:56
Thanks so much! 🙂 Have a great rest of your week!
Sadie Mencia
01:24:56
Thank you!!! Cant wait for the recording :-)
Kaila McNair
01:24:57
Really helpful, thank you!
Maria Doucettperry
01:24:59
Thanks!
Joel Uyenco
01:25:03
Thank you!
Patricia Holliday
01:25:05
Wonderful -time well spent- thank you!
Hanady Elsayed
01:25:14
Thank you all!